Saturday, November 2, 2013

Nachdem ______ todtgebohren

This question has been solved! See this post.

I found an interesting and sad baptism entry while doing some research for my own family.

I wish I could share a cropped image of this on my blog, but specifically says, "Publishing of any textual or visual part of this database is subjected to consent of the Regional Archives in Opava. Proper referencing is required.

So instead, I have included the link. The entry is #57, on the left side of the page, for Johann Schablatura.

Under his name is written:
"nachdem _______ todtgebohren."

I am trying to figure out what that middle word could mean. Do you know? Can you read it?

Nachdem is German for "after" and "todtgebohren" is an antiquated spelling of totgeboren, or "still born." Born dead. 

So the phrase means, "after ______ born dead." 

The middle word looks something like "paltres" to me. Or perhaps "kaltres"?

It would make sense if the word were something like child labor, baptism, or christening but the word shape looks nothing like any of the various German words for those. 

Whether the child was born alive or dead, it is clearly recorded that he was baptized, and at some point before, during, or very soon after the birth process, he died. 

Unless there were a different child that was stillborn. Zwillinger is the German word I know for twin, and it is not that. It really doesn't look like German words for brother or sister either. So...I'm just really unsure.

The rest of the entry is interesting, too. In the father section, his name, "Jan Schablatura" appears to be written over with a different hand, or else the same hand but at a different time. You can tell this because the pen strokes are darker and the nib seems to have been a different shape, but only for the name. His occupation, "passekar" is written in the same hand as the rest of the record. It is also interesting that his name is spelled, "Jan" when all other instances of this name on this page of this register appear as, "Johann." 

I think this must be a case of the enumerator correcting their own error, and not penning the father after the marriage date, because the stillborn child was legitimate.

But what is really curious is the entry for the mother. Here is my transcription attempt:
"Marina tochter des
X Florian Schrubař
und herblieben geozsty
witwe nachdem + Johann Schablatura"

Mariana, daughter of 
X [the late] Florian Schrubař,
and [his] harsh loving [???] geozty [Georgy? But...isn't this a male name? I'm confused]
widow after + [the late] Johann

It seems like Geozty [? I am sure I have this name wrong and it is really bugging me!] was the widow of a Johann Schablatura. Then she had a child with Florian Schrubař named Marina. So, did she marry him? Is this where the "herblieben" word comes in? Or, is that a faulty transcription, too? Or is it more of a description of his character - perhaps he was a harsh man?

So then Marina and  Jan Schablatura, passekar, married and had the stillborn child (probably!), Johann Schablatura. Grandpa Florian Schrubař and Grandma's first husband (is this called a step-Grandpa?) Johann Schablatura died before this happened, though. 

They are of house #192, Trojanovice. Because I have been transcribing some other parish registers, I know that by 1805, Karl Schablatura and his wife Barbara Kabud'ia were living there. 

The book, "The Pilgrims for Hope, Volume II: The emigration to America during 1856-1914" does not include anybody named Florian Schrubař. The section on the Šablatura family is not helpful, either, EXCEPT that I do know that Karl Schablatura who married Barbara Kabud'ia was the brother of Jan Schablatura who married Veronika Smahlik. Hmm.

The more I look at my transcriptions, the less sure I am of them. What looks like "herblieben geozsty" could actually be a female given name and surname. That would make a lot more sense. Only, I can't figure out what it could possibly be. The last time I had a name that was really strange was "Nepomucene." Which turned out to be a totally real name.

It looks like this could possibly be my direct line. Hmm. Seems like some more parish record searches and land record searches are on my to do list.

In the mean time, what do you think this means? Any ideas?


  1. My German is not very good any more but herbliebn is made of two words.Herb means autumn and lieben means loving. It could be a name. The script is difficult to figure out. I would expect that the word between nachdem and todgebohren is a name that was given to a stillborn child. Perhaps the child was born and lived for a brief time maybe only minutes and that is why it is reported as being born dead. Part of baptizing a baby is to give it a name. Just my thoughts.

  2. I think "herblieben" means 'left behind' (or as you would say in English: relict), not harsh loving or something like that. In other words, the widow left behind [by the deceased Florian Schrubar].

    1. The composition is her-blieben (not herb-lieben)

  3. I think it reads "nach den Mattins todtgeboren" or stillborn after dawn.
    I wonder if this is an in-utero baptism, which is sometimes performed when the child is not expected to live. They would but a sponge with baptismal water up the birth canal while the child was still alive, so its soul would be salvaged.